A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

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David3
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A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by David3 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:35 am

Throughout this season we've been shown that everything we know in the present (2004) has already taken into account actions from their time travel to the past. In other words, they can't change anything. Well, that seems to have taken a hit in "Namaste." It seems that someone eventually found a way to change things.

There are two pieces of evidence to support this.

1. When Frank was landing the plane on the Hydra island, the co-pilot called in a distress call. He picked up to transmission of the numbers. We know that in 1988, Danielle changed the transmission from the numbers to her transmission. We also know that in 2004, they turned off the transmission all together. so why is the transmission of the numbers back in 2007? Did a change in history eliminate Danielle's changing of the transmission?

2. When Sun and Frank arrive in Dharmaville it looks a lot worse than the last time we saw it. There’s been a lot of destruction. Not only that, but now there’s Dharma’s signs are still hanging everywhere, and pictures on the walls. Stuff that was no doubt taken down after the purge.

It’s been hinted at that Desmond has the power to change things. Has he found a way to change the past? Did he prevent the purge? Is this new destruction in Dharmaville due to a war between the two sides?

David3
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by David3 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:27 pm

Another thought: If there is in fact changes now, maybe they were caused by Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid being sent back to 1977. Maybe since they time traveled from off the island, the rules are different? I don't think I believe this, but it's an alternative to Desmond changing things.

CorpsesAndChaos
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by CorpsesAndChaos » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:24 am

my take is that Sun and Frank are in a divergent 2007 line where Desmond will eventually alter something. lets face it, the producers and Faraday are full of crap on the "what happened - happened" only until then. the comic-con video was pretty revealing that time needed to be altered and what the outcome of the season will be.

"find a way to save us - to change the past..." - Pierre Chang

its pretty speculative how it gets to this outcome and why the barracks are a ghost town but thats what im running with. unless they expect us to believe that 3 years of storms and smokey smashing through the Barracks made it look run down.

vickih
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by vickih » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:37 am

CorpsesAndChaos wrote:my take is that Sun and Frank are in a divergent 2007 line where Desmond will eventually alter something. lets face it, the producers and Faraday are full of crap on the "what happened - happened" only until then. the comic-con video was pretty revealing that time needed to be altered and what the outcome of the season will be.

"find a way to save us - to change the past..." - Pierre Chang

its pretty speculative how it gets to this outcome and why the barracks are a ghost town but thats what im running with. unless they expect us to believe that 3 years of storms and smokey smashing through the Barracks made it look run down.
i might agree that time turned it into a ghost town but didn't the Others take down the dharma signs when they lived there. so this new 2007 is different then the 2007 we might have seen if the others lived there.
so i agree that sun and frank might possibly be in a divergent 2007.

TheRadioTower
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by TheRadioTower » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:57 am

I highly doubt that this is the case because if it is true it opens a whole new can of worms. If Danielle did not record the message her story was probably completely different. If Dharma was alive in 2004 then the events that happened to the losties would have taken place differently. Nah, it is just way too much trouble.

David3
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by David3 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:42 am

TheRadioTower wrote:I highly doubt that this is the case because if it is true it opens a whole new can of worms. If Danielle did not record the message her story was probably completely different. If Dharma was alive in 2004 then the events that happened to the losties would have taken place differently. Nah, it is just way too much trouble.
I totally agree that it opens a new can of worms, but there's no denying that New Otherton looks different. Dharma signs abound. Windows are boarding up now. Place looks very disheveled.

Perry
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by Perry » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:47 am

A more simple explanation is that the "Thirty Years Earlier" transition was a red herring.
I think that Frank, Sun etc. also time jumped to the past, some time between 1977 and 1988, perhaps after a raid by the hostiles on the barracks, with dharma evacuating for enough time for dust to settle on the photograph. They eventually moved back in and fixed everything up before finally being killed in 1992 in the purge. This can explain the numbers in the transmission and the fact that the dharma signs would no way still be there.

Even though this is still unlikely, I prefer it over alternate timelines. I guess they could head in this direction with Desmond.

Also, I also think that the transitional screen was a red herring because frank piloting the plane went from night to day before and after the flash of light, implying that they also time jumped.
Also in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham", Caesar describes the loud noise and bright light also. I have always imagined that the people that stay in a timeline while others jump dont experience the noise or light, Richard seemingly has no reaction to the noise or light that John experiences while flashing out after Richard gives him the compass in the future or while he flashes out from 1954.

Also for Claude & Justin, at 2:49, 2:50, 2:51, 2:52 of "Namaste", "4, 8, 15, 16" can clearly be heard. Hmmm... although this is assuming you have the eztv version I have, OH, I mean, the same iTunes download. Is that still a possible way of seeing Lost? iTunes still doing that?

David3
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by David3 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:54 pm

I went back and checked. The reck room from seasons 3 and 4 is the same room as the Dharma processing room and the same room that Sun, Frank, and Christian are in, in 2007. This could suggest a change, or it could suggest that they used the same room to film both scenes, but don't intend it to be the same room in the story.

Stephen
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by Stephen » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:55 pm

I always assumed the rec room was one in the same as the Dharma processing room.

Justin
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by Justin » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:25 pm

Horace took Sawyer to the rec room and it has a pool table, which the processing center doesn't. I don't think they are supposed to be the same room. I could definitely buy that they just redecorate the set and shoot both rooms in the same place. Or I'm wrong...again....

David3
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Re: A Dent In "If It Happened, It Always Happened"

Post by David3 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:50 am

After rewatching, I agree. I think they are meant to be separate rooms, even if they are filmed in the same room. The two rooms being the same was pretty much the crutch of this theory, so I'll say I don't really believe it anymore. Still doesn't explain the numbers, though.

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