Cause/Effect

Definitely better than Eggtown.
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muttonboy
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:19 am

Cause/Effect

Post by muttonboy »

What the F$%K is going on??? So it's clear (the writer's have stated as much) that it's not time travel......SOOOO it's Cause/Effect going both ways?? There is NO time travel, right, just a life that has a series of Cause/Effect events that play both ways. (Yeah, I can't quite grasp it either.) But that's LOST as a whole, no? Flash backs. Flash forwards. The ORDER doesn't matter. The past can't happen without the future (that it creates) having happened already, so maybe the future is the past and - EL KABONG!...Paradoxes are impossibilities, so, uh, hmmmm, err, well....ahhhhh?!?!?!? I think RELATIVITY plays a role, and also "perception of time events"...um, errr, huh? (PLAY: PACMAN BEING EATEN BY A GHOST SOUND).

~Mutton

PS: I swear, if Penny's the smoke monster and Daniel's a TERMINATOR I'll puke (though only a little bit.)

Claude
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Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Claude »

To say that this isn't time travel is to be quite daft. There may not be any machinery or technology involved, but Desmond's consciousness is specifically time-traveling.. And if time travel isn't time travel, I don't know what is.

Jeri
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:22 pm

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Jeri »

I did find some relief in the fact that the person's body did not travel around - only their "consciousness."' This seems to be easier to 'believe/explain.'

Claude
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Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Claude »

Jeri wrote:I did find some relief in the fact that the person's body did not travel around - only their "consciousness."' This seems to be easier to 'believe/explain.'

True. But who needs your body to travel when your mind is all that's necessary? It's actually an interesting approach to time travel. The only problem is that "you" (i.e. your consciousness) are limited to traveling to time periods where you exist. And if you're already there, there might not be much compelling you to go. If that makes sense.

For me, I want time travel to take me to see the dinosaurs (yes I want to ride a Stegosaurus) or to the distant future.

Jen
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:10 pm

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Jen »

Claude wrote:For me, I want time travel to take me to see the dinosaurs (yes I want to ride a Stegosaurus) or to the distant future.
just don't touch anything

the other thing I think is interesting about this is that they seem to be looking at the rat in stasis (yeah, I said stasis) during which it is experiencing more time than they are and later (not only an hour later when he is taught how to run the maze, but also for the duration of time it would take a rat to learn the maze.) So how is that working? What is the formula for the amount of time a person (or rat) experiences when traveling back or forth in consciousness-time versus what those in real time experience? Because when we see Des in the sick bay when the doctor (anybody else suspect he's Ben's man?) inspecting his eyes and he "experiences something" no or very little time appears to have elapsed in his sick bay. He is still standing and having his eyes examined. Please, C&J, crack an egg of wisdom on my head.

MekareQ
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:27 am

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by MekareQ »

Okay, here's the thing I've been obsessing over the last two days... I assumed everyone else figured it out, but here goes:

At one point does the rat learn the maze? Dan said he was going to teach the rat how to run the maze in an hour, and even assuming that the rat would have survived that long, it would have already known how to run the maze, because he remembered how to run the maze from the future. So he wouldn't learn how to run the maze, because he would already know. So he wouldn't be taught. So he wouldn't know. So he wouldn't remember in the past. So he would need to be taught....

Is this why people who have "flashes" have issues with their memories? Do they blank out stuff they shouldn't know when they approach the point when they should "initially" learn it?

And then the damn rat died, and never learned the f******* maze. So what the F@#k?

I read both of Stephen Hawkin's books, and I get that time can pass differently for two seperate entities traveling at different speeds, or at different points on a spinning wheel (a point near the center of a wheel will make a faster revolution than a point at the far point from the center, but they are making the *same revolutions.* Therefore, time is moving faster near the center of a wheel than out at the edges.) but I do not get this. I hate that rat.

By the way, I think that revolution thing is going to play in this.

Savard
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Savard »

Hi!! Can't wait for the podcast! :)

What's bugging me a little bit, is the fact, that Desmond's time travel is in fact different from Minkowski's. M apparently travelled from 2004 into the past, while Desmond apparently travelled from 1996 into the future (sorta "pushing away" the 2004-Desmond)! Remember, it was the 1996 Desmond on the boat, not recognizing Sayeed or anything! Minkowski however seemed to perfectly remember the fact that he was the com officer and stuff. It were the 2004 Minkowski and the 1996 Desmond travelling in time! Now what does this mean: I have no idea!

Maybe Desmonds time travels were actually triggered by an event in 1996? Maybe even by Whitmore?

U dunno. just something I noticed :)

Jen
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:10 pm

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Jen »

Savard wrote:What's bugging me a little bit, is the fact, that Desmond's time travel is in fact different from Minkowski's. M apparently travelled from 2004 into the past, while Desmond apparently travelled from 1996 into the future (sorta "pushing away" the 2004-Desmond)! Remember, it was the 1996 Desmond on the boat, not recognizing Sayeed or anything! Minkowski however seemed to perfectly remember the fact that he was the com officer and stuff.
I assumed that this apparent discrepancy was the result of Minkowski having come to terms with what was happening to him, having had more time to digest it all. In the end of the episode, the way that Des addresses Sayid makes me think that he is back to his 2004 self-- he knows where and who he is and has snapped out of it. His ability to contact his constant in the 2004 world restores him and he now remembers everything (including Sayid). Minkowski knows what is happening, understands his sickness and where he really exists, but dies because he cannot latch on to one world of the other (because he doesn't have a constant.) This, though, I think is a contrivance. I would contend that if one understands what is happening and where in time he/she should be, then he/she should be able to overcome this time travel disorder through mental will power without a constant.

This brings me to a related question, which is whether you all think that the drugs the dr. were giving Minkowski had an effect either way on how he was traveling through time. Also, and I hope to hear a lot about this on the podcast, how does this experience relate to Desmond's flashes?

Perry
Posts: 352
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Cause/Effect

Post by Perry »

MekareQ wrote:...At one point does the rat learn the maze? Dan said he was going to teach the rat how to run the maze in an hour, and even assuming that the rat would have survived that long, it would have already known how to run the maze, because he remembered how to run the maze from the future. So he wouldn't learn how to run the maze, because he would already know. So he wouldn't be taught. So he wouldn't know. So he wouldn't remember in the past. So he would need to be taught....
This had bothered me too. I agree totally since he was never actually taught. Maybe something else weird happened in the 75 minutes between Desmond's flashes other than Dan writing stuff on the blackboard that would somehow attempt to explain it.

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