Beyond Good and Evil- the hell is up with Ben and Widmore?

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420brownie
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:11 am

Beyond Good and Evil- the hell is up with Ben and Widmore?

Post by 420brownie »

I'm about to give up trying to figure out which of these guys is the bad guy. I'm actually beginning to think they are both bad. Yeah, yeah, Ben killed Locke, and I don't think he planned on Locke resurrecting. I think Ben is evil, but at the same time, in his mind, killing Locke may be justified in some way.

On the other hand, you've got Widmore appearing to be extremely sincere, almost seemed like a different character than what we've seen in the past. But his story about why he sent the freighter didn't quite add up for me. He wanted everyone on the island killed, not just Ben. Interesting that it seems Ben tricked Widmore into turning the wheel and leaving. Wonder what led to that scenario?

riothero
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Re: Beyond Good and Evil- the hell is up with Ben and Widmore?

Post by riothero »

The biggest clue may be that there's a "war" coming, and so both Ben and Widmore are using Locke to affect the outcome. You would think that, seen in this context, it would be clear how Ben and Widmore's actions could be seen to advantage them, but that's not so. Why would Widmore give almost unconditional support to Locke to convince everyone to get back to the island (maybe for the simple reason ... that he'd like to follow them there)? Why would Ben kill Locke (other than the simply reason ... that the LOST writers wanted to make him appear "bad" again?)

I found it interesting that both Ben and Widmore didn't know that Locke had to "die". Once again, Richard proved his wisdom, knowing more about the destiny of the island than anyone. Either Ben or Widmore could have killed Locke; Locke could have even killed himself! It really wouldn't matter in the end, since Locke is "supposed" to die and be resurrected!

David3
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Re: Beyond Good and Evil- the hell is up with Ben and Widmore?

Post by David3 »

I'm not so sure Richard is all-knowing about the island's destiny...

I could see a scene where Jack comes across a hostile named Richard Alpert during the Dharma era. Jack tells him this crazy story about how's he's from the future and that he crashed on the island in 2004. He left the island along with 5 others only to have a man named John Locke come to him and tell him that they all had to come back to the island to fix the problems. Alpert says, "did you say John Locke? I met him 1954." Jack's like, "WTF?" Alpert asks Jack where Locke is now. Jack tells him that he's dead, but they brought his dead body back to the island.

There you go, that's how future Alpert knows the Oceanic 6 are off the island, and that's why he knows Locke will die bringing them back. Of course that means that Alpert's knowledge that the 6 needed to come back to fix things actually comes from Locke. It's one of those circular things. That would also suggest that bringing the 6 back will fix absolutely nothing.

tikkachic
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Re: Beyond Good and Evil- the hell is up with Ben and Widmore?

Post by tikkachic »

Sorta off topic, but just to bring it back for a second? I think that the reason Widmore and Ben can't kill each other is not because they're each others' constants (ew), but because they both know they exist in the future. So trying to kill one another in the present isn't possible because they both have met and are alive in the future. And I have a feeling that somehow Widmore's part in Alex's death somehow broke the "rules" of time travel and this is what Ben was referring to. Ben now thinks there is some way to change the future.

I suspect that he tried to kill Penny on the docks and was unable to do so. Perhaps they can only change the future on-island?

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