Who's that dude with Jacob?

The penultimate finale.
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kalista861
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Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by kalista861 »

I think it's smokey.Is the immitation Locke smokey? We already know he can impersonate people. That would explain why Alex/smokey told Ben to listen to whatever "Locke" says. Is smokey trying to kill Jacob? That would mean the smokey/island/Jacob as one theory is wrong. Who then would be the best representative of the islands want smokey or Jacob?

riothero
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by riothero »

Oh, I probably should have responded to this topic rather than starting a new one: "Loophole?" But I guess the question I'm asking is a little different, because I'm more interested in Locke's role. But to answer that we must figure out the dynamic between Jacob and "Jacob's enemy". I dunno who he is, but, as I mention in the other thread, "Jacob's enemy" was most likely the person in the cabin in "The Man Behind the Curtain" who said "Help me" to Locke (whom Ben mistakenly thought was Jacob). Remember Llana said somebody else was living there?

I agree with you that the Smokey/Island/Jacob as one theory no longer seems to hold up. I wonder now if it still makes sense to speak of the island as something with a "want" of its own. Maybe it's just a magical island (I mean, er, "scientific" but with "special properties") divided between two assholes.

There are good reasons to think "Jacob's enemy" is Smokey, but we just met this character and so it's too early to say for sure.

Claude
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Claude »

Where does Christian fit in? Is he really working for Jacob, or is Christian "Mr. Loophole" in disguise?

I also think it's Mr. Loophole we see visiting the Losties pre and post 815, he's just dressed as Jacob. Christian, other apparitions, and the "Jacob" that visits the losties all seem to be on the same page, so maybe they're the same entity. And if Mr. Loophole is smokey, well, I have no words...

David3
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by David3 »

In episode 4.1, "The Beginning of the End," Hurley finds the cabin, looks inside, and sees Christian sitting in the chair, then sees the eye of a different man, probably Mr. Loophole. This would seem to show that they are not one in the same.

TheRadioTower
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by TheRadioTower »

Claude wrote:Where does Christian fit in? Is he really working for Jacob, or is Christian "Mr. Loophole" in disguise?

I also think it's Mr. Loophole we see visiting the Losties pre and post 815, he's just dressed as Jacob. Christian, other apparitions, and the "Jacob" that visits the losties all seem to be on the same page, so maybe they're the same entity. And if Mr. Loophole is smokey, well, I have no words...
No, I think it is the real Jacob visiting them. He has been keeping a tab on these people because they will help him win the war for the island. Christian is the same thing as the dude in black. Jacob never wanted the island to be moved, Christian/guy in black wanted that to happen because his goal was to make sure that some of the losties leave the island because it sets in motion a chain of events that lead to Locke's death and allow the dude in black to impersonate him and kill Jacob. The only reason he visited Locke in the Frozen Donkey whel chamber was to further push him on the "you need to die" train. There is no possible way Christian is working with Jacob.

420brownie
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by 420brownie »

Yeah, I really think that was Jacob visiting the Losties. It's a bit confusing though because I think Jacob's enemy had reason for the Losties to return to the island, but only in how it relates to getting Locke's body back to the island. But I think Jacob has been keeping tabs on the Losties for quite some time, and nudging them towards the island. I think they are basically his back-up plan to his enemy's loophole, and I think it's who he referred to when he said, "they're coming".

Perry
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Perry »

Since it looks like Mr. Loophole is the winning name...

Image

Silentbob
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Silentbob »

ok, so after i watched the episode, i picked apart that scene with mr. loophole and jacob. it was very cryptic, but what i got from it goes into my following theory.

mr. loophole = smokey = the island = pseudo-locke = pseudo-alex, and maybe = christian, and is in direct conflict with jacob. jacob believes in humanity similar to the philosophers locke or calvin. he wants man to reach the island and see the beauty and glory of the power it beholds.he is peaceful, benevolent, and helpful. mr loophole hates humanity, and believes that they will all lead towards greed, corruption, and destruction, and could be compared to philosophers Rousseau and Hobbes. he wants to keep the island away from humanity, in fear if it being destroyed by their greed. he is violent, rude, and an elitist. both have valid points, but they have been fighting over who is right for who knows how long. keep in mind that my knowledge of Renaissance philosophers comes mostly from hazy high school memories and unsure recollections of wikipedia articles past, but i'm pretty sure the lost writers have a similar thing in mind. they do have a love for renaissance philosophers.

Mr loophole has been trying to find a...well...loophole to get jacob killed, and has finally found it in locke. he has been laying the seeds since possibly the 70s, and it has finally come to fruition. i have to go back and look, but i'm pretty sure mr loophole is christian, and he does not speak on the behalf of jacob. he has been fooling locke all along, and specifically telling how to go about his plan. my main proof that christian is NOT jacob, and IS mr loophole is that he agreed when real locke told him that he will have to die, which obviously, he really didn't, and loophole's whole scheme is predicated on locke's death. also, he wanted locke to move the island, to protect it from man.

to combat loophole's plan, jacob has been constantly following all the 815ers, trying to help them prevent his death. i guess it didn't work...i'm not really sure. but now that jacob is dead, i think smokey/loophole is going to try and basically kill off all the humans, enslave them, or get them to leave. not really sure. i'm pretty sure the whole judgement stuff is bullshit, but if it isn't, loophole only wants to allow the purest of heart onto the island.

Perry
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Perry »

Is the person who posted the Adam and Eve theory on Lostpedia here?
"Maybe the two corpses are Jacob and Mr. Loophole. "

or has this name caught on?

David3
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by David3 »

I've seen many nicknames given. I wish they would have just given him a name.

I've seen...

Mr. Loophole
Black Shirt
Jacob's Enemy
Jacob's Nemesis
Mr. X
Man # 2
Esau
Smokey

For Locke I've seen...

Fake Locke
Faux Locke
Focke
Loopy Locke

Perry
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Perry »

Well I don't think there should be 2 seperate names. They are clearly the same person.

Vince
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Re: Who's that dude with Jacob?

Post by Vince »

After rewatching Twin Peaks over the summer I was surprised that C&J (such TP afficionados) did not mention Bob in the discussion of Mr. Loophole! There seems to be some merit in noting their similarity in modus operandi (is that the proper plural?). I propose that Mr. Loophole be referred to as 'Bob Loophole.'

It was terribly disappointing not to see the story of Cooper and Bob play out in a third season (such awesome potential). I wouldn't mind at all if Darlton took that concept and applied it to Locke and Loophole.

I'm very much looking forward to the final seasons, both of LOST and LLD! Ah, the bittersweet...

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