Feedback on Commentary Podcasts

[Claude]

Hey Vince! Thanks for your comments, always fun to read :)

Some random responses:

It would have been great if they connected the flashes before Desmond's eyes with the flash sideways. Alas, I think he just saw a possible future. Or, you know, "whatever didn't happen yet didn't happen."

I think Locke comes off crazy partly because he both has blind faith and crippling (pun intended) insecurities, both avenues to crazy decisions. His faith should plug the hole that is his insecurities, but his faith isn't absolute, it runs out of stream and then all he is left with is insecurities. I believe the immaculate conception line was a ploy from Lock's dad? But if Locke's mom was really crazy (like MIB's mom) the idea of inheriting the illness would have been interesting to explore.

Re: Hurley's crackers - it would have been cool if they mentioned that the (apparent) freshness was possibly supernatural. But they didn't make that a thing. They just tried to mine weak fat jokes from Hurley that he'd eat anything.

Vince (and Raxivace) as always THANKS for Listening!

[Vince]

Jughead

More silly Desmond accents, please! I would totally watch a Kelvin & Radzinski sitcom. The volcano was such a missed opportunity - Chekhov would disapprove. Nice work identifying Dogen's machine as a Scientology E Meter :D (that actor showed up on Westworld recently) Churches, churches, churches - so many churches!

[Vince]

The Little Prince

I do really appreciate the time travel callbacks in this one - Locke seeing the Hatch light, Sawyer witnessing Aaron's birth, etc. Very good call on the similarity between that scene and the Twin Peaks version w/ Coop, Laura, & James. Claude: The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing us that LOST would eventually make sense! I think my new favorite thing is hearing Justin's dread and angst when he starts to anticipate Claude is about to pull on a plot thread he knows will unravel :D :D :D As I hear your disappointment with so many characters' arcs, I wonder - is there any character whose trajectory you think was handled well?

[Claude]

"Is there any character whose trajectory you think was handled well?"

Well leave it to Vince to zero in on a great question! We will certainly have to discuss this (at length) on the next podcast.

But for now I'm thinking: Jack, Sawyer, Juliet, possibly Kate.


I was just thinking how Locke's story could have ended to give him a good arc despite all the stuff he did. And and this came to mind:

Jack and MIB/Locke fighting on the cliffs in the series finale...
Jack is about to win but the cork settles and MIB has his powers back...
MIB/Locke gets the upper hand and is about to kill Jack... then:
THE REAL MOTHERFUCKING LOCKE SHOWS UP!
Everyone is confused on how it's possible, especially MIB.
Real Locke reaches out to MIB/Locke and says "You have something that belongs to me"
And just like that MIB returns to his Titus Welliver form.
MIB begins to go after Locke when every single person MIB killed or impersonated appears behind Real Locke.
Real Locke says: "I made some new friends"...
And they all bum rush MIB off the cliff into the water...
Real Locke helps Jack up (who is mortally wounded) and says "I'm sorry Jack. For everything."

We either say or hint that Real Locke was able to be present due to the uncorking in the light cave/similar power to how Jacob was present on the island a bit after he died.

That right there is how you vindicate Locke and make his arc worth, you know, watching!

P.S. Another line of dialog I would have loved:
Jack sees Real Locke and asks: "How?"
Real Locke: "Aren't you tired of asking questions, Jack?"
Jack gives that classic Matthew Fox Smirk(TM) and says : "Yes, yes I am"
They shake hands. Real Locke disappears.
Jack goes off to die.

Boy I just need to write my version of the finale, eh??

[Vince]

YES! You can fix it!! Not just the finale, either, but the whole series. Then you can sell it to ABC for the reboot... :D :D :D

[Vince]

This Place Is Death

Yes, Jin should totally have told Rousseau that her baby must not be raised by another/an-other! Seriously, though, I do like the idea that Jin saved her from being claimed, thus changing the course of events, for the better, for the Losties when they arrived years later. I forget who said it, but I laughed out loud at the proposition that if Robert was the Smoke Monster he could have turned himself into the firing pin :D You guys are going through such contortions to explain all the problematic time travel issues. I do, though, particularly like the suggestions that Smokey could have been consicousness-time-travelling to maneuver in multiple eras. Also, interesting theory that he he could have been manipulating Ms. Hawking. I'm confident that if you two persist you'll be able to give a plausible explanation to every aspect of the show. Or maybe you did already, and we've just forgotten...

[Claude]

"Or maybe (we) did already, and we've just forgotten..." may be the thing we say in the very final podcast.

That or the final line may be "Guys, we are we?" lol

But yeah, Jin telling Rousseau her baby should not be raised by "an other" would have been a nice symmetry with Claire as well as connecting to Ben raising Alex which leads to her premature death. But now I'm not even sure Jin knew Alex was Rousseau's child, I forget how that story line goes.

Thanks Vince, we should be back with new podcasts soon!

[Stallion]

I just found this podcast and this is amazing. I have been binge listening to this as I have been rewatching the show. It is my second watch and I’m now in season 5. Looking forward to catching up to the episode commentaries after I finish this rewatch.

I can’t believe y’all are still putting out shows. Makes me very excited that this community is still aroun. I just assumed when I found this that you all would be long done. Wish I had been listening in real time, because I would have been very excited to contribute to theories at the time. Alas, can’t change that because what happened, happened. Anyways - you guys are awesomely entertaining.

I haven’t read forums or finished listening to all the podcasts of the original show, but, I’ve been yelling at you while listening when you talk about time travel and time concepts. It’s been fun and frustrating because y’all have great conversations about it but I also can’t butt in say things too. Haha. Anyways, Don’t know if either of you have read “slaughterhouse 5,” but, I feel like thinking about time in that manner is somewhat helpful to making sense of free will combining with the concept of “what happened happened”. Though, it also makes my head want t explode...

Anyways, mostly here to express my appreciation for putting out the best lost podcast that I have found. Excellent work. Got to check out mr podcast, too, I suppose. Cheers, Dan

[Claude]

Hi Dan! Thanks so much for your post and for joining the LLD train!

There's literally hundred of hours of LLD and we're glad the old stuff is still available for newer viewers. We're currently in Season 5 with our commentary series and yes, lots of mind bending time travel!

Let us know how your rewatch is going and any interesting or flat out wrong theories or comments we have in our original run podcast.

Thanks!

[Vince]

316

A recent road trip finally afforded me the time to catch up w/ you guys and I really enjoyed these last two. I'm really liking the idea that Eloise could have been manipulated by MIB - makes a lot of sense. It even inspired the idea that MIB could have been part of the drama that led to Eloise & Widmore's banishment back in the 50's (?), either MIB manipulated them or even conspired with them... I, too, totally forgot abour Caesar! I agree w/ you guys that keeping MIB as Christian and avoiding all the pitfalls of embodying Locke would have been a good solution to some of the nonsense. Unless, as you suggest, the writers made more use of potential conflict of MIB being afflicted by Locke's hangups, out of his control to some degree. Lots of untapped opportunities there for thematic drama. Another great idea of yours - Des realizing his selfishness and forcing Widmore to help in the greater fight. It would have given Des a more realistic motivation and reason for being there, as well as offering Widmore redemption (and maybe even a scene with his own daughter!). And, yes, Richard should have recognized MIB's deceptive schtick of impersonating the dead :(

The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham

Had an idea for Justin's 'Clip Show Loophole Episode' - characters return to Pearl and find a vault of tapes of camera observation footage deemed exceptionally important. It'd be kind of like a found footage movie I guess. (Or, kinda cool, instead of Losties going to the Pearl it's a Dharma rescue team of Hanso and the Degroots!) Anyway, I absolutely love the idea that MIB could have time-travel manipulated his earlier self - "MIB MIB's himself" :D I also am intrigued by your reboot ideas - the native perspective, another island (a future with Hurley as the leader is less appealing). What about this - LOST...in Space! ;) Or maybe similar characters but with the genders, nationalities, and backstories shuffled around? I wonder what the ideal reboot structure would be - still 6 seasons? fewer or more? 8 episode seasons? 12/13? 15? Last consideration of yours I appreciated - what's more evil, the devil who's there or the god who isn't? (re Jacob & MIB) Ah, well... You should keep that spontaneous tagline - 'TLLD - solving LOST one episode at a time!' Thanks guys - you solved it again!!! Looking forward to hootenannies!

[Vince]

LaFleur

I actually synced up w/ you this time! Fun stuff :) I appreciate you coining the term 'Walting' as a verb, in reference to MIB appearing where he shouldn't be. We finally get to The Hootenanny! I hope we all enjoyed our Pearl Station brownies ;) I know she's dead now, but I would still like to hear you work in more Char-lotte accents in upcoming podcasts. OMG, did they really never explain Daniel crying at the start of season 4?! I'm going to have to ponder that one... To get through the sonic fence Smokey just needed earplugs :D :D :D On a serious note, I really do like your point that the Claire/Rousseau parallels had so much potential for deeper development. The tie-back to season 1 (raised by another, etc) could have been such graceful and powerful storytelling. Loving the pods, guys. Thanks, as always :)

[Vince]

(thanks and) Namaste (and good luck)

I like your theory that Radzinski was actually killed by Kelvin - makes sense, as annoying as they played him & fits w/ Kelvin's personality pretty well. "Widmore was a bad character that couldn't be changed!" :D You two have got some really good ideas on how much better they could have written Ben. I like the suggestion that he could have thought Jacob was a myth and manipulate it to his own ends, and the fallout when he learns he's wrong. I also love the idea that Smokey could have appeared to Ben as his dead father over the years. So much mind-fuckery to be had there. Also, interesting that they could have created behavioral cause/effect loops, ala the watch. AND, if handled differently, the whole 70's Ben could have functioned like an extended twist on the flashback device, expanding on character experience & motivation that led to what we'd seen over the previous 3 seasons. Oh, the unrealized possibilities... But I'm having fun poring over it w/ you - Thanks! (and namaste :) )

[Vince]

He's Our You

There was a brief moment at the start of the podcast where it seemed Claude had dropped from the call and it really took me back to the old days of Justin reading the news when that would happen regularly :) The more think about it, the more this recurring theme of characters being wrong about big & little-picture explanations could be taken as a nice twist on the story telling device of the unreliable-narrator. "Jake" :D Even if I don't like the character, I love the actor playing Oldham for other roles of Larry (with brother Darryl & other brother Darryl) on the old, but newer, Newhart show) and the detestable E.B. Farnham on Deadwood. BTW, Dharma jail seems like a pretty good deal just for the sandwiches. On a serious note, I really would have liked there to have been a long-held secret that Ben &/or some of The Others actually did remember the Losties' contribution to the 70's, and that knowledge had a bigger impact on how things played out. Put it in the rewrite, guys!

[Vince]

...it's been 101 days we've been stranded on this island of no LLD :( ...

[Vince]

136 days...so long without LLD that I think I'm hallucinating...for a while, I thought the Care Bears were here... ;)

[Claude]

Hey Vince, we are planning to have a new podcast this weekend! Look out for the pallet drop for Dharma branded fidget spinners to keep you busy till then!

[Stallion]

136 days...so long without LLD that I think I'm hallucinating...for a while, I thought the Care Bears were here... ;)

Haha. Nice, Vince. The other week I put on the Bob Hope Desert Classic from Palm Springs.... he goes freakin' nuts. My father, not Bob Hope...

Happy new LLDs are going to come out. I have been plowing through these things. I was getting concerned I'm actually going to catch up to y'all.... I've made it to episode 144. And, I apparently have to re-watch Expose now.... should....be....great.................

RAZZLE DAZZLE!

-Dan

[Justin]

The wait is over!

[Stallion]

Woooooooo! LLD 2019 holler back. It has been fun catching up in time to all of this stuff. The last epidsode I listened to contained the first Donald Trump reference... I feel like I’ve reached the present state of the world order in LLD time. It’s pretty strange.

I have to say, the original podcast series is a pretty amazing time capsule. As I only started listening in like 2018, I would get excited every time Claude’s call would drop and Justin would read the news headlines. It was fun hearing what was in the headlines like 10 years ago.

Also, loving the recent segments (from where I’m listening now in the end of season three commentary series) where Justin recaps the original LLD episode. Hilarious hearing all the original theories recapped.

Cheers,
Dan

[Claude]

Hey Dan,

I wish I had the time to relisten to all of the old LLD stuff. There's some real gems there, probably more than I can even remember at this point! Actually, definitely more! Justin reading the news when my call dropped is such a specific time period for the podcast. Let us know what other funny/interesting stuff you come across. I remember a very long running gag where I would detail things that were on and not on my business card.


We're going to finish up our Season 5 commentary in the next few weeks and the plan is to take break from the LLD and go over to our other podcast Mr. Podcast so we can do a commentary on Twin Peaks seasons 1-2 which will take a couple months. Then we will be back on the LLD for Season 6 likely starting around August. So just a heads up if you want to pace yourself on catching up!

[Stallion]

Exciting! Only ever watched twin peaks once, and I thought it was great. Looking forward to hearing you guys talk about it! I will absolutely fire walk with you.

So, listening to you guys try to logic-out (logic-ify?) the time barrier at the moment. First time through I was totally on board that it doesn’t make sense. (I.e. the “payload” gets to the island “later” but the dead doctor gets to the island “sooner.”). That is not consistent. And it seems like the writers could have bungled it. BUT, I think now that perhaps a better way of viewing the time barrier is that it just warps time in random ways. There’s no telling what it will do. Sometimes the island is ahead, sometimes it’s behind. And the degree of ahead/behind varies. Sometimes it poops you out 4 months later in Tunisia; sometimes it just takes 4 extra minutes for a rocket to land on the island.

I think the fact that it is only 4 minutes apart during the rocket experiment indicates this is true, too. Because it would take a lot more than 4 minutes for the dead body to wash up on the shore after he is killed. Thus, the time change/warp/effect of crossing the time barrier must be different every time something passes through. Could be dependent on speed/size or compass direction (maybe the dr. came in from a 315 heading while the rocket came in at a 230 heading or something. We already know that if you leave at a certain heading there will be NO EFFECT from the time barrier.

That said, it is really fun hearing Justin diagram it out and explain how the writers were wrong (if they were trying to be consistent).

Here I am contributing to these conversations way too late.... alas. Looking forward to some twin peaks lowdown. Watching that show always made me want to have a slice of pie and coffee for breakfast.... delightful.

[Stallion]

Claude in episode 160: “What if it is almost like a Protoss Pylon, where like the light cave is like the pylon and it has a radius of effect.” Oh, thank you for that Starcraft reference. I may have listened to 600 hours of LLD so far, but that is nothing compared to the hours of star craft I played in my life. Ha. En taro Tassadar. Amazing.

[Stallion]

Thoughts on commentary on Episode 168.

So, Locke tells Jack: “you have to lie” about the island and everything that happened on the island in order to protect it. You both have this reaction of “why? There is no reason to not tell people.” And “it’s not like everyone is Widmore trying to get to it and/or exploit it.” (Paraphrased).

I think that this is an example of getting caught up in solely the characters on the show rather than the implications at large of a place like this. For example, let’s say the survivors get back and explain what happened in truthful terms. Let’s even say they leave out the mystical stuff - how would you expect the entire normal population of the world to react? Add on - there “were strange experiments, odd happenings, etc.,” even more people will want to find it. The US Army has already been there, they would probably freak out and try to find it again. Every news outlet in the world would be Trying to get the scoop on this unknown land mass on the globe (CNN has 24-hour coverage of that lost Malaysian Airlines plane, imagine what the world would have done if three months later survivors appeared and were like, “we found an island nobody knows about.”).

THINK OF THE CARTOGRAPHERS ALONE! The North American Cartographic Information Society (the NACIS, if you will - website here: http://nacis.org) may describe themselves as “an enjoyable society of map enthusiasts,” but YOU KNOW that they would go rabid over the idea of a new piece of ground to outline on their enthusiastic maps.

Then, once whatever set of people get there - who knows what they will do? They might PUT OUT THE LIGHT (which would be bad, presumably), dig for oil, cause deforestation, the extinction of the Hurley Bird, or expose Dharma’s scientific inadequacies to their peers. None of these are good outcomes.

All this to say: I think it is completely reasonable for John Locke to ask for them to lie. Or, at least I don’t find it to be as incomprehensible as you guys are making it seem in this one. 1-year-too-late for the conversation yet again, but I’m catching up. Cheers.

Dan

[Vince]

Whatever Happened, Happened

Great to hear you guys again! Always delighted to listen to you work at so many of Justin's LOST Mind Splinters. Multiple baby theories this pod! Geez, you guys just really love babies.. First, that the Smoke Monster could have long-conned everyone by impersonating baby Aaron as one of the Oceanic 6 is genius. It would have been so DIABOLICAL. Secondly, that Smokey's imprisonment could have somehow been tied to a set population of born-on-islanders is interesting. The connection with the pregnancy problem fits, and the theory that Man in Black could have been manipulating Ben to prioritize the pregger-problem-o solution for his own benefit (a new on-island birth allowing Smokey to leave) is solid. And the return of Wet Shirt Jack! Lastly, excited to hear of the prospect of a Twin Peaks S1-2 commentary (how bold of you to tempt fate by publicly stating a tentative schedule...).

[Vince]

Dead is Dead (aka We're Just Fuckin' With Ya at This Point..maybe the show was just one massive trolling...)

Yes, LLD listening will be passed down through the generations and I will totes Patreon yuz to get 'Tangents Only' content ;) And I'll go one step beyond - the Prophecy says you guys will be like Jacob and MIB stuck on the “island” of analyzing the show, but with a continual cycle of new generations of followers...and a FURTHER step beyond ~ it’s like the Pearl & Swan: which is the experiment? - the TV show or LLD podcast? which is being observed? is this tlld forum a big pile of notebook-filled pneumatic tube cylinders?! are Damon and Carlton monitoring you guys and taking copious notes?!?!

Anyways. It’s like life!

I’m OK with them almost getting it right (Justin: "an interesting failure"), and us connecting the dots with our own theories to make sense of it all, it’s fun enough (though frustrating at times). You inspired me to write interpretive prose:

What’s the meaning of life, and what happens after you die?
What’s the meaning of LOST, and what happens after it dies?
What’s the meaning of LLD, and what happens after it dies?
What’s the meaning of it all, and what happens after we die?

Anyways. Maybe Jacob was cool with Locke's body being on Ajira 315, so that MIB could be in mortal form and be killed. Egyptian hieroglyphs showing smoke monster could pre-date MIB - why not? Lastly - worth continued consideration, Justin's question: Is there a show or book (or whatever, of similar epic scope) that holds up to such scrutiny, and is consistent in its logic and message?


Like & Namaste! Namaste & Subscribe!


ps.my LLD E*TRADE code isn’t working, still waiting to hear back from IT help desk...

pps.I listened to the cast twice, and I swear I coldn't think of anything to say after the first time!

ppps.live together, die alone

pppps.giacchino rules

[Vince]

(LOST yet again! finally getting caught up! I swear these two pods showed up in my feed in July, but with June dates on 'em - I think there's a barrier-style time delay at play...anyway..)

Some Like it Hoth

The DeGroots could have been such an interesting characters in the 70's Dharma story. It feels like missed opportunity, along with Alvar Hanso (and I think D&C basically said 'fuck that' (ala cabin burning) when slave trading grandaddy Hanso is killed offscreen). Thinking about it now, it seems that Hanso was set up (briefly) as the corporate baddie, the role that Widmore filled. Wondering if there was a change in course in the writers' room.. New Unfounded Theory - Radzinski was his first name. His last name...DeGroot! (ridiculous, I know) Fuckin' Bram! Miles was a fun character (though I'm lovingly biased by Ken Leung's Sopranos appearance). As you've pointed out, his power could def have been better utilized. You guys are really exposing a bunch of character/motivation/plot holes that didn't bug me before :O Last thing on this one - I don't give near as much weight to the Swan serial Numbers. It sounds like you see it as The Origin, but to me it feels like just another in a long and mysterious chain of occurrences. I suppose you confirmed that this the chronologically earliest instance (not seen in anything pre-1970's), but Mother's line is called to mind, "Every question (we) answer will simply lead to another question." That and the loops - the compass, Horace, Daniel & Eloise, etc.


The Variable

Your pre-ep banter had me smiling all day - the Claude Segue is LLD's Constant :D and then the chronically-detoured segue :D :D :D More Loops! And, as you said, sad as it may be to consider, for the final LLD (shut my mouth!) to loop, in some way, back to the first LLD would be poetic. Fuckin' Radzinski..SO incendiary. Fuckin' Phil! I would totally have watched a Phil spinoff - just think of the hootenannies. Thank You for the image of Smokey in the 70's depicted in bell bottoms and platform shoes :) I think Daniel's arc (mental health trajectory) is clearer on the rewatch (still, like Miles (and everything else), not perfect). But, I like that it ties into the Island healing powers. BTW, are Widmore and Mrs. H the worst? Still, I appreciate the rather dark turn of Eloise, bound by fate yet coldly calculating, sending her son to his death. It just woulda been nice if the motivations/greater-good would have been clearer...

ANYway. Thanks for solving LOST yet again!

[Vince]

Follow the Leader

As basic as it may be, I think the best thing we got from the 70's thread was confirmation that pushing the button - the Big Mystery of Season 2 - released electromagnetic energy as a means of preventing an(other) Incident. You got me wondering - are Jacob's powers the result of him being born on the island, or from being on the island for 2000 years exposed to its "magic?" Next,100% agreed that Juliet went disappointingly downhill (maybe since the appendectomy, but def w/ Dharma). Ben’s contradictions are ludicrous and ridiculous - he never asked to see Jacob?! or wasn’t clear that he was the leader and had the right to ask?! Richard never took him seriously?...hmm....actually, that might work if he thought saving/healing Young Ben tainted him...But let's not get started on Richard... Interesting alternate idea for Daniel to have told Eloise to get everyone on the Ajira flight (for whatev reason). And OMG (I don't remember which of ya came up w/ it but) - that Smokey could impersonate a living person if they later time traveled to the past and died is IN-FUCKING-SANE!!! So much potential there. Anyway, y’all were sounding a little worn down at the end of this one :D Saw yer plan to finish out 5 and switch gears to TP for a bit. To which I say, "Coo!" Until next time...

[Vince]

The Incident

I'm so proud of you guys for getting through this one. I think it's (mostly) downhill from here! RIP - The Cabin! Thanks for reminding us of the mysterious, 'Help me,' presumably said by Man in Black. I still have no idea what to make of that. They really needed to give us a little bit more about MIB's loophole - so vague that it just feels hand-wavey plot propulsion. You guys keep coming up w/ interesting ideas - like Radzinski being the Smoke Monster, and maybe Jacob is sending the Losties to the 70s to stop him. As I recall they make us wait one more episode before we get Juliet's final one-quarter pucker.. As Claude said, in some universe there’s a version of LOST that’s way better :) IT"S JUST LIKE LIFE :D :D :D See you in The Present for Season 6!

[Stallion]

2020! TLLD enters a new decade. Holler!
Such a great episode. Awesome surprise to see a new episode when I was going to the TLLD to listen to an old one as I work on “spreadsheets.”

I subscribed to the YouTube. Also - thanks for my shout out. Haha. Took the headphones out and played that sweet 8 seconds for my wife: “hey! Check it out! They say my name! Awesome!”

Looking forward to the end of the journey. While I agree the story can be frustrating and suffer from “entropy”, I also find that I like the ending from the emotional story telling aspect of it. To me, there were two things going on with this show: 1) the “what is happening? Explain this place!” Side of the show; and 2) the “I enjoy watching these people go and grow through these inexplicable and never-explained happenings” side of the show. While side (1) is what hooked me and ultimately becomes a bit frustrating by the end, side (2) I find quite satisfactory.

I guess It’s a bit of cheap writing answer to a mystery show. Basically the writers say: “don’t pay attention to the lack of answers - just feel emotionally connected to what they went through.” But, at the same time, i find it to be emotionally satisfying if dramatically frustrating. Either way, looking forward to going through season 6 with you guys. Cheers, Dan

[Stallion]

Just listened to LLD #2. Great paraphrased quote from Claude: “It won’t surprise me if Echo isn’t long for this show. I think his purpose is to put Locke back on track to become season 1 Locke again. Locke is lost and Exho is going to bring Locke back to being the mystical person who has a purpose. So, I think Echo is going to finish the church and that’s about it.” Solid guess. Swing and a miss. Ha. Oh, how we all believed and wanted to believe in Locke. Lol.

[Vince]

LA X

I'm feeling bittersweet about the beginning of the end - TLLD Season 6 Commentary! Good times. I was OK w/ the final season on first (and only) watch. Yes, the Flash Sideways should have meant more. Still, even if the story didn't make a ton of sense it was decent Island-mythology-candy. I think Justin spoke for all of as, though, when he said, "I’ve been disappointed by enough shows, now...'

First, I always feel extra special when I get mentioned on the show :-) Second, “Island timey wimey-ness” - Doctor Who ref! Third, I encourage all of your rewrites - MIB origin story: The Next Chapter; Locke’s whittled weapon :D ; Desmond in the flash sideways/afterlife with Kelvin; MIB eradicating the Losties' afterlife by destroying their flash sideways!

ps. I keep hearing what sounds like dog collar jingles. I'm dying to know - who's pup? name?


What Kate Does

I always love it when you guys take it back to Lord of the Rings-based analysis - old school! I appreciate your point about Sawyer's perspective on childhood trauma in light of Sayid killing young Ben. The Good-Bad Meter! (and all the resultant confusion) Also, fair point that none of the characters care about The Island except Locke, which made him more interesting. I like the Claire-Russeau parallels.

ps. you guys watchin' Westworld? I recommend :) season 3 starts Sunday..

[Vince]

Wow, man - this break-neck LLD release schedule has me thrown for a loop ;) (Hope y'all are well)

The Substitute

Claude: The show should be a lot worse than it is, given all the characters and major plot lines. :D My best speculation re/ Jacob having separate/distinct cave v. lighthouse to track peeps - one/both has special electromagnetic properties? Biggest laugh = "It was a perfect character arc. Read the transcript." :D :D :D will not be appropriately appreciated by future generations of LLD listeners. Bravo, sirs. Also, please. Please! PLEASE!! -do more Quiz Justin by Season+Ep Number!!! (I'm so impressed you were able to pull it out!) More please! OK, I like your hypothesis that Richard had memory loss from Jacob's touch. Ya got me thinking, though, what if Jacob's touch was just his mode of claiming (claimed Richard, then Candidates, Dogen, +) Hmm...ANYway..

Lighthouse

I like your alternative story of Jack working through his daddy issues by being a dad to Aaron, instead of the fake-sideways-son they went with.
LLD: "Claiming - just cuz they’re talking about it doesn’t mean it’s a thing." Thank you for pointing out that Jacob is kind-of sacrificing the Others to save Jack & Hurley. Those dumbass m'er f'in Others... Although Jack & Hurley's importance should have been clear to us at this point. Any chance Smokey/MIB was interested in Claire b/c she was the first to successfully give birth on the island since forever? Fave new LLD idea - Ghost Michael Flashback, including ghost-shouts come across to the living as whispers! And again you're right - it would have been cool for Jin to give Mike his props. Mind-blowing crackpot theory - maybe Ghost Michael’s flash-sideways was the Losties' Island reality... OMG don't remind me about the Outrigger..

Sundown

LLD original rap: "When the sun goes down, the temple gets empty!" :D Boy, Sayid's story is really a train wreck at this point. Nevertheless, Naveen Andrews is still on our refrigerator door all these years later. Flash-sideways Keamy! Of course, we get The Line, "He was the only thing keeping it out!" The Smoke Monster v. Temple destruction scene just doesn't quite hit the mark for me, which is disappointing at this point in the series. And, I think you came up with about four better alternative stories for Claire. Still, I'm always happy to listen to you two talk LOST :)

Best wishes.

[Vince]

Dr. Linus

More Dr. Justin, please!! (you could switch it up once in a while to Dr. Candle, or whatever ;) ) ANYway.. I'm intrigued by your speculation that the Young Jacob we encounter was time traveling. If both J & MIB had time travel experience (physical ala 70's Dharma Losties &/or consciousness ala Des) - so much potential to their 2,000 year history. You have again solved LOST by rewriting Ben's murder of Jacob to be a natural reaction to J's indifference/ignorance of Alex's death/sacrifice. As well with your suggestion of Ben realizing Locke was manipulated with the, "Help me," line. Shit, if Ben had a realization & change of heart, teamed up w/ Locke in the end in a put-the-past-behind-us scenario, to help defeat MIB..woulda been fuckin' epic! Finally, I encourage you to pursue the path you stumbled on - to rewrite LOST not to improve it, but to make it worse 😀

Recon

OMG - Your Saved by the Bell comparisons are so ridiculous :D I now challenge you to find the SBTB parallels to Lord of the Rings ;p If I remember right, the Sawyer precedent w/ Little House was he was bed-ridden w/ mono or something as a kid and only got one TV channel, which showed LHOTP (I think LHOTP inspired LOTR, and consequently SBTB, and by natural extension L..). No doubt that Ben's a better liar than Sawyer, but MIB's exact words ("you're the best liar I ever met") suggest MIB is condescending (analog to the "I am lying" paradox). And I cannot state strongly enough how much I love, love your crackpot theory that afterlife-Christian is MIB! - "The most important part of [my] life was the time spent with these people...[I] needed all of them, and they needed [me]...to remember, and to let go."

Ab Aeterno

Paraphrasing Dr. Justin- Paraphrasing Dr. Justin- "LOST Season 6 is where I lost faith in all TV going forward." Wow - Big Wow..So... I am still mad at the the Four-Toed Statue's lame destruction "story" - it's another instance of cursory, throwaway, dismissive explanation (weak!). Richard is very frustrating the more you point out all the ridiculous holes in his motivation and circumstances. Double for Jacob. It would have been so great to see the interim years - they could have called it 'What Ricardus Did.' And fuckin' Cindy - enough said, amirite. Lastly lastly, your theory of a separate flash-sideways for The Others is delightful. Imagine, a chapel full of Richard, Tom, Mikhail, Ms. Klugh, Cindy, Emma, Zach, Harper, Dogen, Lennon, Colleen, Pickett, & others ;) Perhaps there was a Freighter Flash-Sideways, too. And a DHARMA flash-sideways. And a LLD flash-sideway :o

As they say - "There's Only 8 Episodes Left"... Love you guys :)

[Vince]

The Package

(on a serious note first, with the country burning and wrestling with its demons, it's hard to get in the spirit to write this, but I've been procrastinating on getting you my podcast thoughts so I'm doing it now, still my faith in the arc of the moral universe bending toward justice abides)

Not sure if it was my podcast player or what, but Claude's voice kept doing a weird slow-down thing that made him sound like he was in the witness protection program :D I loved Justin's succinct (if absurdly flippant) summary of Sun & Jin's entire story (with lots of "blah, blah, blah"s interspersed). I encourage you to consider doing that for all of the characters, maybe as part of a finale run-down... I do like the return of the Watch, and even the flash-sideways reworking of Sun & Jin's relationship, but the rest of it is a mess. It's an interesting idea of yours that they could have written it that the Losties all had to be back together to leave the Island, in the same way they had to be together on Ajira to get back. In the end, an underwhelming episode with precious little time left until the end...and I'm not sure any of us really wanted to see Charles Widmore's package :p

Peace and Love to All, Vince

[Stallion]

So.... been having old episodes on while I do work recently. Just had to quote an amazing exchange (given what we know now) from a Season 3 LLD Episode - The Man from Tallahassee. Let's see how my court reporter skills go... (at the 4 hours, 30 minute mark of the episode).

******
J: I want you to speculate what's going to happen [now that Locke has found his Dad in the custody of Ben]. What's he going to do?
C: A lot of the plot lines seem to center around people getting over their past. So, I think this is Locke's turn to come to grips with his Dad and all the issues he has failed to deal with. Which, I hope means he won't DIE afterwards... cuz that seems to happen to some people.
J: It does.
C: God, If they killed Locke?!?! Wow.
J: I know.
C: I don't know what'd they do.
J: I can't imagine them killing Locke, I feel like he's unkillable.
C: Yeah. Well, he could be reborn as Locke The White!
J: Oh God! hahaha. "But, Locke, I thought you were dead?!?"
C: "Fly you fools!" He turns into Gandalf, I don't know.
J: "I am not Locke anymore, I am Locke the White."
C: "I have returned to guide you all to the promised land, to Mordor! Where the ring will be destroyed." That's great, and Ben is like Sauramon...it totally works.

******

I nearly spit out my coffee.... because you were joking around mocking something like this would ever happen... and if you change the words "Gandalf" into "Smoke Monster" and "Locke the White" into "Man in Black" you basically NAILED THE ENTIRE ENDING. So.... there you go.

[Stallion]

Not sure if it was my podcast player or what, but Claude's voice kept doing a weird slow-down thing that made him sound like he was in the witness protection program :D

He was totally in witness protection for me too. haha.

[Vince]

OMG, you guys, this new & unrelenting pace of LLD releases, I can barely keep up! It hearkens The End, which makes me sad (like with a Giacchino violin) but you were really on a roll these three eps. At this point, I think we can all agree, and unequivocally declare & attest, that you two have solved LOST more, and better, than anyone else, ever :)

Happily Ever After

Justin rips out of the gate w/ a Desmond/fan rant! (http://besttv.theringer.com/ - re #1) You gave me such segue nostalgia :) which actually led to me wondering - What's on Claude’s business cards these days? I finally caught up w/ Watchmen so, when you mentioned Damon's penchant for special rooms (Room 23, the Cabin, etc.) it instantly called to mind Looking Glass's psych-interrogation room! Cool LLD idea #8,324 - Man in Black could impersonate any Lostie in the flash sideways because they're all dead :O Justin Quote of the Ep?: "Classic LOST - they walk up to the line of the thing that would work..and then they just don’t..quite..follow it through." Lastly, crazy pull! that Charlotte may have been intended originally as Widmore’s daughter - would prob have worked well, alas. (wasn't Daniel, W's son, kind of into her, though? Yikes...)

Everybody Loves Hugo

I guess I at least appreciate that Des’s electromagnetism isn't overly caricatured as a super power (though I think more credit goes to H.I.C. than D&C). Great LLD idea #1,764 - Man in Black wanted to use the Island's time travel properties to go back to his original time. It's simple, makes sense, reasonably compelling, alas.. Which got me speculating - what if he went back to before he stabbed Mother? and what if we learned she had Island-related-future-knowledge that guided her f'd up actions? and that revelation changed everyone's perspective and motivations?! ANYway.. Given the show's prevalence of Daddy Issues, interesting to see Mommy Issues so important in the purported core conflict of the story (Jacob/MIB). Ilana blows up :D I appreciate your point that the writers unceremoniously ditched the idea that Island has a consciousness. I think it pinpoints what might be my greatest disappointment with the show - that they didn't deliver on the mystical Island mythos. Yes, it has electromagnetism that allows time/space travel, it can geo-relocate, it has caves that turned a person into a Smoke Monster, it often heals physical ailments, it has a Barrier. But the idea that it was beautiful, that it was an independent mover for good - never came to fruition. I guess I can appreciate the Losties taking the role of protectors of the Island (custodians, guardians, etc.). Curious, in this home stretch, to see if my feelings on how well D&C deliver have changed...

The Last Recruit

I will always remember where I was when, after 196 podcasts (of extraordinary spans!) over 13 years of my life, I, for the very first time, heard Claude (of The Lost Lowdown) - sneeze! - on podcast :O It was a Saturday afternoon in late July of the Terrible '20. I had just started mowing my lawn and already my headphones were sweaty... ANYway, as for the ep. - we do get the momentous Jack & Man in Black scene (shortfalls aside)! The Christian reveal/confirm is a big payoff. We get The Return of the Dural Sac! And, since you started it, I insist - you must codify the various Lindeloff script dances - The Lindelof Shuffles, The Linedelof Waltz, Lindelof Shimmy, The Shake, The Skitter, etc. And, finally, Mind Blowing LLD idea #225: Claude's epic Man-In-Black-as-Dead-Dan-Loophole-Driver Theory - if ever there was a LLD moment for "We’re gonna have to listen to that again" this is it. Also, on this re-listen I noticed two script references to episode titles. I think they were, "one of us" & "left behind." I'm curious if that was intentional, and if we might see more in this home stretch.

Thanks and Namaste and Good Luck.

[Stallion]

It hearkens The End, which makes me sad (like with a Giacchino violin) but you were really on a roll these three eps. At this point, I think we can all agree, and unequivocally declare & attest, that you two have solved LOST more, and better, than anyone else, ever :)

True that.

[Vince]

The Candidate

I really liked hearing your reactions to old, contemporary podcasts. I'd be happy to hear more of that as we head down the home stretch (or a whole new podcast series :p ). And YES, you SHOULD write the reboot! I've been saying this for years. There is no one more knowledgable of the plot, the characters, the rights and the wrongs, and the overall ethos of the show. If you don't do it we'll just get some corporate money-grab turd! When Sawyer pushed Locke/MIB into the water I am SO glad you thought to bring up the infamous Wet Locke blowing up the sub. “Water is a lot like consciousness” - Claude :D Also from Claude, I think, "The shape of things that never arrived." :D :D Your ardent speculation on Sayid's tribulations (both on screen and at the hands of lackluster writing) inspired a Crazy Idea - what if Sayid's revenge-spree for Ben led him to time travel and he got duped (or accidentally stumbled) into inadvertently causing Nadia’s death. Great potential for uber-tragedy there. And I really appreciate your point about Sayid being used throughout his life - the Iraqi National Guard, the US military, Ben, MIB. This should have been made clearer by the show, but it took you to get it home to me. Thanks! And, lastly, I can’t believe we never noticed the Jin-Sun & Des-Pen are same love story! Anyway, I'm stockpiling tissues so I can cry my eyes out when we get to the end...

[Vince]

Across the Sea

Home stretch :o I appreciate you pointing out that Mother, intentionally or unintentionally, may have set up Jacob and Man in Black to be a tandem team to watch the Island, locked in eternal struggle. I think you compared it to the Hatch tandem (specifically Kelvin and Desmond), and I would extend that to the Pearl Station pair of observers. But you could make connections to the bigger themes such as the John & Locke relationship, the good/evil, black/white, and science/faith dynamics (though preferably with a bit more finesse than what we got).

I absolutely love the idea of Jacob and Man in Black being secretly switched at birth (would that be Baby in Black?), and the secret kept from them for 2,000 years until the saga with the Losties somehow finally reveals the truth: the guy who thinks he's good realizing he's evil, the guy who thought he was evil turning out to be good, the ensuing identity crises, shifting allegiances, revolutionized philosophies, abandoning their ancient plots for fresh plans and trajectories that align with their newfound, "true" identites, all that crazy shit. Mind blowing!

Lastly, what if Mother saying people were bad wasn't a judgment strictly on others, but included an acknowledgment that she, herself, was bad and had resigned herself to that. Maybe she believed both Jacob and Man in Black were bad and she just made up a story for them? Or maybe she chose Jacob to "break the wheel" and be the first or only good person, and lead to human salvation? Or maybe, like Claude said, it was just Mother's retirement plan... :D

On an unrelated note, I happened to catch a rerun the other day of the scene where Mr. Eko cuts off his beard nubs and gives them to Ben. I found it interesting that Eko was kind of confessing and asking for forgiveness/absolution. interesting for the very different interaction between him and Man in Black impersonating Yemi, but also thematically linked to Ben asking Smokey for forgiveness for Alex's death... anyway, think about that, Tammy.

Bring it home, guys!

[Vince]

Holy Smoke Monster! It's been almost four whole months since your Across the Sea cast!! Did that episode break you two again?! I'm not complaining. I know the final stretch is daunting and, as I've said, I'm gonna be super-sad when it's over. So, take yer time :) Just dropping you guys a note let you know your clamoring fans haven't forgotten you and the mission, and we look forward to your conclusive solving of LOST!

[youtube]https://youtu.be/aB2yqeD0Nus[/youtube]

[Justin]

What They Died For is in the can (and has been for longer than I care to admit), so it should be out soon!

The End is something we've discussed, but it's a big deal, so we want to do it right! Hang in there, we will complete this journey!

[Raxivace]

Honestly I can't believe the podcast is almost finished after all these years. I guess if you guys really wanted to stretch things out you could figure out a way to talk about Lost: Via Domus. :P

I feel like the theory of "Christian" in the Flashsideways actually being the MiB has existed for a while now, but it's odd how its kind of hard to actually disprove the idea. If Damon and Carlton don't want you to consider the possibility, it makes me wonder why, just on a dramatic level, they just didn't have Titus Welliver MiB (And Jacob, and Mother etc.) in the FSW if only to address the more, uh, troubling aspects of those characters. I would have liked to see MiB be able to find peace in a similar way as someone like Ben got the opportunity to, anyways.

[Vince]

What They Died For

The penultimate! Podcast Number #200!! 15 years!!! The Justin Intro for only the fourth time ever!!!! EPIC.

I too am experiencing a degree of separation anxiety. Thank you for finding the words for it that I couldn't. Definitely anticipating going through the stages of grief. I think I'm in denial by not thinking too much about how this is it. You guys are great :) and I'll miss this :( Plenty of crazy theories that are still amusing to entertain at this late stage. The Island enhances intuitive powers :o Christian at the end is MIB! EVERYTHING before the Church was flashback?! Nothing matters - just like life :p

Agreed it would have been more unifying, sensible, and satisfying if the Losties awoke themselves in a chain reaction instead of it all being left up to Desmond. Thank you for pointing out the parallel between Des using the Hatch failsafe and him being used as Jacob's flash-sideways failsafe. What a ridiculous series bookend - Widmore's pregnancy test in season one & Widmore's magnetism test in season 6 :D Legit question- who DID bring the pregnancy test on plane? What if it was a dropped story idea...Sun? Shannon? Ana Lucia? Cindy?! And, on a final note, Jack can has what it takes :D

I'm already preparing my personal delusion that, in the dramatic conclusion of the LLD The End podcast, in a stunning revelation you will exhort your audience that "we have to go back!" and we will blissfully go on this ride all over again...

[Stallion]

Ok. So, something I’ve been meaning to admit for a while now — MY WIFE ONCE TOTALLY BROUGHT A PREGNANCY TEST ON AN AIRPLANE (to Hawaii, no less!) to take a pregnancy test while we were on vacation. Whew. Feels good to get that off my chest. But, I can verify to you and to Kate Austin that it totally does happen. :) she did not also pack 40 tarps and fireworks, however.... so, not sure about that....

Also, I agree with Vince. WE HAVE TO GO BACK. (Don’t leave me). Ha - thanks again for all the work you’ve put into this. Though I was a late joiner, your podcast has brought me much joy. Y’all are great.

I guess I’ll just have to do a re-listen and keep all the stats I have at various points thought about counting: (1) number of occupations on Claude’s business card; (2) total points awarded by Justin for Claude’s vocabulary words; (3) news stories broken by Justin when Claude’s phone would drop calls at the roughly three hour mark; (4) number of times the talk-shoe voice would try to cut off the meeting...

Great times. Thanks again. -Dan

[Claude]

Hey friends!

Thanks for staying on the LLD train all this time. It is bittersweet to come to the end of the show and commentary series. But in true Claude & Justin fashion, we can't let the island go and have a really exciting series of LOST podcasts planned that will keep the train going a while longer!

We are planning to record the commentary on "The End" later this week. So stay tuned for the release of that one soon after, and more details on where the LLD train is headed next!

To quote Aaron, "Choo Choo Tunnel!"

[Stallion]

I cannot believe I missed the freaking live cast! Happily joining patreon now. Cheers, kids.

[Vince]

(emotional here at...) The End

Before I get started, I want to say that I loved your finale live-stream commentary! Thank so much for hosting it. So very cool it coincided with your 15th anniversary. Fate? Coincidence? Etc? Also, per your advice, I did revisit the closing of original LLD for The End. Highlighgts = "Let's not get hung up on the details!" :D "This is a place that you all made together so that you could all find one another." <3 "Where is this podcast going?" Answer, 10ish years later: a book!

Great stuff coming out of you both. every. damn. podcast. even. at. number. two. hundred. and. one! Case in point - MIB lost his body and then/therefore his humanity, as a package deal. Lots of thematic threads to tie into that, starting with the ol' 'what is meaning of life & what happens after you die?' Worth comparing to victims Sayid & Claire, their bodies being claimed and losing their humanity/spirit. Also Locke losing his legs (=half his body, hence humanity/spirit? might be a stretch but...), and then MIB takes his (whole) body!

The finale has its flaws, undoubtedly, but for my money Giacchino is absolutely amazing at carrying an absolute fuck-ton of emotional weight. Appreciated character development theory - your idea that the Old Jack needed to hear he 'has what it takes' but not the New Jack, who's sufficiently secure, emotionally. On a parallel, Justin nailed it w/ "Desmond is right for the wrong reasons." And thank you both for making painfully clear, on this re-watch, for better or worse, numerous weaknesses in the character writing. Still, we all know that The Constant is the insurmountable pinnacle of human artistic expression, so we're good there ; )

And thank you for reminding us that, at the beginning of the season, Locke said The Island was at the bottom of the ocean. I had forgotten...but..I think...it was a probably a fake island to put there by Widmore ;) What IS with the skeleton in the cave?!... I like your suggestion that Frank is like Sawyer 15 years older, because of the nickname habit :p ... In the Jack v. MIB fight, 100 points to Claude for "the price is wrong, bitch!" :D :D :D ...Goddammit, the volcano finale woulda been cool as shit! ... Excellent LLD edit - in response to "why are they all here now?": instead of "there is no now here", Christian should’ve said "now is all there is." And, on that note...

You two got properly deep for the finale! This entire commentary series has been prolific, insightful, and astounding (without even loving on the OG run....) I think you said something to the effect of "it's not what LLD means, but what it means for the podcasters experiencing it, and their listeners." :D I couldn't agree more, and can't express what a joy it has been to be there along for the ride. Thank you :)


The New Man In Charge

nah, luv yuz :)